[Idea] Macintosh 68k Programming Study Group?

eric

eric

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First Study Group is live! https://tinkerdifferent.com/threads...velopment-environment-setup-hello-world.1754/

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I've been doing some 68k Programming in ThinkC 5/6 and learned a lot along the way (with a lot of help from @jcs, @Mu0n, @_SDGOL_, and others) and was wondering if anyone would be interested in a every two weeks'ish Macintosh Programming Study Group. I'm thinking we'd go through say a Chapter in a book and discuss the concepts, problems, and build some demo apps. We can structure it so people can join in anytime and participate as much or as little as they want.

In my mind I have enough content to build out the first batch of weeks, but I'd need help from others too to think of ideas, maybe challenges, etc.

I think it'd be a great way to get people who've wanted to build a 68k app but couldn't and got stuck, and for some of this stuff to be more "googalable" - Also if enough are interested might be worth a dedicated retro programming sub-forum.

system6.png

A window I made, much further than 12 year old me ever got.​
 
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eric said:
I've been doing some 68k Programming in ThinkC 5/6 and learned a lot along the way (with a lot of help from @jcs, @Mu0n, @_SDGOL_, and others) and was wondering if anyone would be interested in a every two weeks'ish Macintosh Programming Study Group. I'm thinking we'd go through say a Chapter in a book and discuss the concepts, problems, and build some demo apps. We can structure it so people can join in anytime and participate as much or as little as they want.

In my mind I have enough content to build out the first batch of weeks, but I'd need help from others too to think of ideas, maybe challenges, etc.

I think it'd be a great way to get people who've wanted to build a 68k app but couldn't and got stuck, and for some of this stuff to be more "googalable" - Also if enough are interested might be worth a dedicated retro programming sub-forum.

View attachment 7354
A window I made, much further than 12 year old me ever got.​
Click to expand...
I'm in!
 
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Wow! This is a fantastic idea! :) Thank you, @eric, for getting this study group set up.

Hey, I set up a Retro Apple Programmers/Developers Association thread in hopes of spurring up discussions on reviving that association today in the retro sense. I got that idea from @BFEXTU, a veteran software engineer from back in the day for the Macintosh programs, as we were talking about that in another thread a couple of weeks back.

I will link this thread from there as well.

I am in, too! So, this is using the ThinkC compiler? Okay. It's on Macintosh Garden. Any other stuff I need? Do we use the TinkerDifferent Discord to collaborate?
 
So, I was looking for a textbook we all can use together. How about this book in PDF I found at vintageapple.org, Macintosh C Programming by Example, back in 1991? Is this good?

Below is the disk that came with the book.

1659719221505.png


Macintosh C Programming by Example - Macintosh Garden

This is the disk of THINK C sample projects which accompanied the book by Kurt W. G. Matthies and Thom Hogan. See Also: THINK C 4.0, 5.0, 6.0, 6.0.1 Symantec C++ 6.0, 7.0, 8.6 Think C From Scratch
macintoshgarden.org macintoshgarden.org
 
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@eric, are those the compliers we all can use together?

Symantec THINK C 5.0 - Macintosh Garden

An early version of Symantec's C compiler. The first version capable of creating 32-bit clean code. This makes it ideal for making applications for both early 68K Macs and later models. See Also: THINK C 3.0.2, 4.0, 6.0, 6.0.1 Symantec C++ 6.0, 7.0, 8.6
macintoshgarden.org macintoshgarden.org

Symantec THINK C 6.0 - Macintosh Garden

Symantec’s THINK™ C 6.0 is without question the most significant upgrade to the THINK C product line ever. Symantec C++ for Macintosh combines THINK C 6.0 with an integrated and powerful native C++ compiler.
macintoshgarden.org macintoshgarden.org
 
retr01 said:
So, I was looking for a textbook we all can use together. How about this book in PDF I found at vintageapple.org, Macintosh C Programming by Example, back in 1991? Is this good?

Below is the disk that came with the book.

View attachment 7392

Macintosh C Programming by Example - Macintosh Garden

This is the disk of THINK C sample projects which accompanied the book by Kurt W. G. Matthies and Thom Hogan. See Also: THINK C 4.0, 5.0, 6.0, 6.0.1 Symantec C++ 6.0, 7.0, 8.6 Think C From Scratch
macintoshgarden.org macintoshgarden.org
Click to expand...

I highly recommend not sticking to any single book. We have access to many, MANY sources of material:

Mactech articles: http://preserve.mactech.com/articles/index.php
Treasure troves of programming book PDFs: https://vintageapple.org/macprogramming/
Inside Mac (old): https://vintageapple.org/inside_o/
Inside Mac (revamped): https://vintageapple.org/inside_r/

My compiler recommendation is Symantec THINK C 6. The only reason to use v5 is if you're cramped for space, which shouldn't happen in 2022..
 
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Mu0n said:
I highly recommend not sticking to any single book. We have access to many, MANY sources of material:

Mactech articles: http://preserve.mactech.com/articles/index.php
Treasure troves of programming book PDFs: https://vintageapple.org/macprogramming/
Inside Mac (old): https://vintageapple.org/inside_o/
Inside Mac (revamped): https://vintageapple.org/inside_r/
Click to expand...

Great! :)
https://vintageapple.org/inside_r/
Mu0n said:
My compiler recommendation is Symantec THINK C 6. The only reason to use v5 is if you're cramped for space, which shouldn't happen in 2022..
Click to expand...

Perfect! :D(y)

Thank you, @Mu0n! Is there anything else to gather?
 
I'm in a hurry...but sounds like fun! You just have to make sure you have the right tools and interfaces for the desired target machines. Think C and Think Pascal were always good. There is also the Think Reference, which is a handy toolbox reference. There were major changes between System 6.x and System 7.x and it was not really a clean break. Apple had a lot of trouble with System 7.0 (and later with Copland). So, you can expect forward or backward compatibility issues, depending on which version of the tools and interfaces you are using and how you set up the project attributes. Another good cross-compiling tool on later MacOS platforms was CodeWarrior -- version, then the Pro IDE -- around the time that Motorola bought them. If you have a physical mac, then a good debugger is essential -- Macsbug, TMON, TMON Pro, The Debugger, etc. The main development platform from Apple was MPW -- not as user-friendly as LightSpeed or CodeWarrior, but more powerful. For System 6.x, you probably want something in the 3.0-3.2 range. For 7.0 and later, v3.4+. You will need ResEdit or Resorcerer to edit resource files. To look at files, there were tools like FEdit+ and SEdit -- but maybe not as common. And, while learning 68K is not essential to make your first program, you should consider it so that you can debug your programs and understand the Mac internals. It's fairly easy -- you could learn the basics in a day.
 
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I heartily endorse THINK C 6 as the right C compiler for almost all purposes in the System 6/7 era.

I don’t think that at the learning stage one should need to be mucking about with Macsbug. The THINK C integrated debugger is more than good enough for learning Toolbox programming, and Macsbug isn’t hugely valuable until one learns 68K assembly in any event.
 
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Resedit is excellent to make your resources, it's what I'm familiar with since the 90's. And I'm fond of resorcerer to poke around code in hex format and read data files that way, with strong search features. Porque no los dos?
 
Mu0n said:
Resedit is excellent to make your resources, it's what I'm familiar with since the 90's. And I'm fond of resorcerer to poke around code in hex format and read data files that way, with strong search features. Porque no los dos?
Click to expand...

Cool! So, there are common codes in hex format that means something. Do you know of good guides on that?

Guides how to change splash screens, sounds, icons, etc.?
 
Mu0n said:
I highly recommend not sticking to any single book. We have access to many, MANY sources of material:
Click to expand...
100% agree.

the trick is what to start with. I thought the idea would be everybody works on the same material and collaborate.


sounds like eric has a ideas for the first few weeks at least.....
 
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