A Classic II/LC III laptop/book….

[-SE40-]

Gotcha!

The keyboard remains an issue…..to be solved.
Problem is to find one overhere.
I just start with the one I have.

 

[-SE40-]

@retr01 , portable keyboards could indeed be the solution in this matter.

 

[Trash80toG4]

Gotcha!

LOL!

PowerBook/Portable KBDs all require a controller AND a Wombat or the like for ADB conversion. The thin, inexpendive USB KBDs I suggested far upthread require only the ADB adapter and come with matching wireless rodents for a silver, black or white build. Looks like Harmut liked the notion of a black build, which would be my preference. The silver KBDs have white keys and white mice. I'm fixing that by transferring controllers and black keycaps to a silver board with black keys to go with the black mouse.

Laptop KBD of choice would be from the 1400, best ever in a 'Book or Laptop. That goes nicely with PowerBook Charcoal, but the rodent color problem pops up for that. Black mouse has a flat finish topside an bottom for painting if you wish.

ADBII or IIgs would probably best for matching to SE/Macintosh II I think!

Wireless Keyboard And Mouse Combo Set Slim 2.4G For Windows Laptop PC Computer | eBay

Computer Desktop Gaming Keyboard and Mouse Combo Ergonomic RGB LED Light Backlit. The mouse and keyboard occupy only one port and you can use the saved interface to connect to other devices. Item Type: Wireless Keyboard.

www.ebay.com

 

[-SE40-]

I could borrow the flat keyboard from my wifes imac, do not think she will appreciate that….

Still,….
I feel the old Mac-keyboard will fit, with an internal case height on the edge of 12-14mm.
The curved baseplate can be straightened easely, while taking it apart for shortening.
No biggie

 

[-SE40-]

Ive gotten the backplate off pretty easy.

Anyone knows what happens if the numerical pad is cut off allong the red line?
Will the rest of the keyboard still function?
The first purple line-left- is the position where the support plastic needs to be cutoff….
My guess is the electronics sees only the make contacts and so it should not harm function of the basic keys.
Or am I wrong in that?
Otherwise I leave it untouched and fold it under the keyboard lateron.

Anyone?

 

[davidg5678]

My guess is the electronics sees only the make contacts and so it should not harm function of the basic keys.

I did a lot of tinkering with an Apple Extended Keyboard matrix a few years ago --from what I remember, the wires operate as rows and columns. Whenever the corresponding pairs align, a keypress is registered. I'm not sure whether or not wires from important keys are routed through this Numpad section of the keyboard matrix though. I think you could probably test this theory out with a multimeter set to continuity mode.

Alternatively, it might be possible to temporarily make the cuts you need with a knife, then test the main functionality of the keyboard. If it works, you could completely sever the plastic, and if it doesn't, I think there is a special kind of conductive ink/glue you could buy that is meant to repair these keyboard matrices.

I'm also not sure if there is any downside to insulating this part of the keyboard matrix with some packing tape and folding it underneath the section you intend on actually using. (As long as it doesn't crack the electrical connections, and it doesn't mess up the feeling of the keys that is.)

 

[-SE40-]

Thanks for the suggestions/advise
Well, cutting trace piece by piece is a good idea. But I had an extra look if repair would be possible. It turns out that this is a two layer lamination. So unless you scrape off a layer, there is no way to repair/patch them again.

I will have an extra look how loops run, then decide…

I have a seperate keypad now

 

[Trash80toG4]

What KBD are you Hacking apart, looks like ADB II? Got a pic of the controller and its connector?

Folding the sandwich underneath has always seemed a bad idea to me. I've only considered:
__ customized PCB made for the bottom layer
__ controller bodged to extension on PCB
__ lop off bottom layer and spacer
__ wrap only the top layer underneath at rounded off edge of PCB

That approach limits the number of cut matrix lines to the top, flex layer.

Older controllers were typically single sided, DIP component PCBs with wire jumpers topside. They can be easily attached to new PCB matrix at the connectors a/o by clipping the wire jumpers topside with longer wires soldered to bottom layer of PCB extension for support a/o connection bodgery if convenient.

Dunno, sleepy but this gets the notion across?


edit: keycaps top surfaces for curved rubberdome switch matrix config are likely going to be somewhat mismatched for a planar config?

 

[-SE40-]

M0487 1990 ADB thats the one…..​

I will flexcut the metal baseplate-straighten it tomorrow, and put the board together and leave the „pcb“ sticking out the side
Connect it to my Classic II and see if it works, then check if I can actually bend the foil without a problems

Good idea to round the edge of the metal plate and add some protection tape to that.

(Straight base, does not look weird btw.)

 

[Trash80toG4]

Good news that! Maybe test it by folding only the bottom layer of the sandwich underneath at the start? If that doesn't break connections then folding the top layer ought to be fine?

I've never imagined that those flex circuits would take a liking to be folded to fit a magician's box. Go about breaking things systematically as you'd go about testing them after having borken only half the matrix possibilities.

 

[-SE40-]

Hi there, thanks for your concern!

Its laminated dual layer pcb foil, so its bonded together with traces in between.
Further I wont be aiming for a sharp bend,
but radius as big as acceptable/useable.
Next to that, I will add some heat to get the tension a bit off the plastic foil (and shield the rest for the heat)
I am pretty sure the Flex Circuits wont like this treatment at all. Hope this works!
Otherwise, we will all know that this idea does not need to be repeated. Failure is no real loss, as this keyboard was for spares only to start with. On the other hand if it does work, I need better keycaps/keyboard.

As this was a very filty and worn looking keyboard, ive given it a wash in the sink and have put it in the sun yesterday. Now its looking a bit better, and I dare to touch it again…..

 

[-SE40-]

Succes!
Bending with some heat works.

All keys work, but some make no good contact, as you have to push them a few times before letter shows up. Maybe ive damages the pads while cleaning?
Anyhow succes and bad luck on that.
It was a doubtfull keyboard to start with.

 

[Trash80toG4]

Take a pic of the entire matrix and post it. I'll play with it in AI and then predict which keys are giving you trouble with intermittent contact. Meanwhile, look for marker pens that lay down flex circuit ink.

Which measurement are you going to use to define the front edge?

Depressed

Depressed + Travel?

HartMutWhite -> HartMutBlack -> //c transitions go from:

low/flat caps, minimal key travel switching
mid-level raised caps, short stroke switches
full travel switches, fully raised caps, chickletized to camouflage overall thickness of raised KBD surface.

 

[Trash80toG4]

Thats the ADB II KBD included with my SE/20 shipped 1987, received 1988. Replaced it ASAP with a real KBD, datadesk in VT-100 form factor.

 

[-SE40-]

I was not that fond about this keyboard also….

 

[Trash80toG4]

YAY! I finally found where I stashed the //gs KBD! Perfect spot in the HackHutch right next to the swingout cutting board tool caddy, in plain sight of course.

Defining measurement for front edge of case would be 21mm in height.

If I were to do HartmutBlack it would be a Silly KeyCap Wider. (silly Chesterfields advert reference)

/ = __Home
0 = _.Page Up
6 = _.TAB
3 = _.Page Down
. =__End

Four+ reasons not to touch the never pictured mouse in the Mac oriented Notebook study illustrations

Tab is centered on home row of excised NumPad. PageNav/Numpad the ResEdited Caps Lock KCHR resource embedded NumPad config for my PowerBooks. Did a LOT of spreadsheet and QuickBooks numeric entry on them and TAB in far left field just does not cut it that knid of input anytime, anywhere as far as I'm concerned.

I only hope that you or someone else gets around to modeling //gs or any other style KeyCaps printed with sub-surface characters, I hope a set for printing surface characters with sub-surface lozenge embedded Numpad surround will follow. Fill and wipe color method would rock. Duo's Embedded UltraPad had lettering in magic marker on nice light gray rounded square decals.

 

[retr01]

I only hope that you or someone else gets around to modeling //gs or any other style KeyCaps printed with sub-surface characters, I hope a set for printing surface characters with sub-surface lozenge embedded Numpad surround will follow. Fill and wipe color method would rock. Duo's Embedded UltraPad had lettering in magic marker on nice light gray rounded square decals.

I like that idea! I wondered how the function keys were done on a standard ADB keyboard. Is there a workaround to do function keys?

 

[-SE40-]

Great infos, interresting!

If keycaps are such a thing, you also need decent switches……found low profile model keycaps too…

Ive read that they can laser engrave personal layouts also….

 

[retr01]

So, can key caps be ordered to customize the labeling on the keycaps? I thought that was expensive since they charge per keycap. Interesting.

What about clear keycaps with white or black? Then install different color LEDs to shine through the keys like the keyboard I have. I like my keyboard but wish it was the Apple six colors in the correct order.

 

[-SE40-]

Custom caps are expensive for sure!
Ive read a while back that was an option.
It did concern a groupaction, so it was a small batch.
(Edit: there is now even a special service for that- https://www.wasdkeyboards.com/reprinted-key.html )
Ive been searching Ali for a while….

You can buy PCB‘s….then add various switches….and caps , many models to choose from….

So in this case / project low switches, low keycaps…

Fully transparent Ive seen also on Ali.