Mystic Options

[Javmast3r]

After almost four years I'm getting a Color Classic again, thanks to @jcm-1, (if you haven't seen his tribulations, check it now:

). Anyway, I'm looking forward to get it back and start adding new stuff. My main question is: how much memory can I add? Also, will I ever use it?
What other things can I add?
I have ready a RASCSI (for HD and networking), Apple PDS card, A gs Keyboard and mouse.
Let me know your thoughts.
Cheers
Jav

 

[eric]

@JDW currently has a series on the mystic - check it out for some ideas and he has more coming. The fan upgrade is an easy inexpensive one I'm doing today actually!

Looks like Joe got the caps all figured out for you so thats the biggest thing.

You said an Apple PDS card (assume apple //e card?) That also has 2 caps on it that'll need to be replaced. Since you have RaSCSI we do have a pre-made image for the //e card that has 32mb prodos partition with tons of apps and games. Note on the apple //e pds card you will need to be booted in 24bit mode.

RAM from LowEndMac

• RAM: 4 MB on motherboard, expandable to 68 MB using a single 80ns 72-pin SIMM; can use 1 MB, 2 MB, 4 MB, 8 MB, 16 MB, 32 MB and 64 MB SIMMs. (The LC 575 works only with single-banked 64 MB SIMMs, but it does not work with double-banked 64 MB RAM SIMMs.
• video: 512 KB VRAM, expandable to 1 MB; supports 640 x 480 resolution

Will you use it all? Probably not - what OS are you going to run on it? I have 36mb and never hit it.

 

[Ron's Computer Videos]

The LC575 supports adding a single 128MB FPM 72pin SIMM... for a total of 134MB of RAM.

RAM is pretty cheap, so max that baby out!

 

[JDW]

I've not maxed my Mystic "baby" out when it comes to RAM because (a) I have 36MB now, which is really all you need unless you are running OS 8 and some RAM heavy apps like Photoshop to do more modern style work with huge files (unlikely), and (b) my good friend @Kay K.M.Mods told me he has done that and it makes cold boot times MUCH longer. If there was a way to disable RAM checking on cold boot like you can on the SE/30 with the ROM-inator II, then perhaps cold boot times would become much more manageable, thereby making 134MB a much more enjoyable experience.

By the way, thanks to Kay, my preliminary testing (for a forthcoming CC video) in the area of overclocking is going well. I've broken the 45MHz barrier thanks to fast VRAM. So my next two CC videos in the series will cover (a) the VGA mod and (b) overclocking with fast VRAM. I then need to do a video on something very special that arrived from (and was created by) @Kai Robinson -- which will be absolutely amazing. And then I need to do a video on my mid-2015 15" MBP speaker swap, since I have a blown left speaker. Then I need to come back to the Mystic video series again because there are more things to do like swapping out the HDD for an SD card solution (@eric will like that), service my floppy drive, and more.

So much to do and so little time! Ack!

 

[Javmast3r]

Forgot about the memory check, maybe 36 is enough...

 

[nottomhanks]

I'd like to put the raSCSI in my Mystic for quicker data access as well as the Ethernet capability. Can anyone confirm that the RaSCSI setup will FIT INSIDE the Color Classic? Someone had also written code to have an HDMI output a la ScuzzyGraph. Is that also possible? I also have the IIe card installed.

 

[JDW]

I'd like to put the raSCSI in my Mystic for quicker data access as well as the Ethernet capability. Can anyone confirm that the RaSCSI setup will FIT INSIDE the Color Classic? Someone had also written code to have an HDMI output a la ScuzzyGraph. Is that also possible? I also have the IIe card installed.

Not sure if @Kay K.M.Mods has a RaSCSI. I don't, which is why I am unable to properly answer the question. So long as the physical size of the RaSCSI isn't larger in any direction than a 3.5mm spinning platter HDD, I don't see why it wouldn't fit.

 

[JDW]

Since you have RaSCSI we do have a pre-made image for the //e card that has 32mb prodos partition with tons of apps and games.

Eric, since you did not link to that 32MB ProDOS partition (disk image file), can I assume you are referring to your post here, where you are simply using the image posted on BMOW?

Also, I'm only now preparing to recap and film my experience with the Apple IIe Card for my Mystic (LC575 motherboard), and I'm a complete ignoramus when it comes to the Apple II. In fact, I don't recall even the last time I've touched one. As such, I'm curious if the rather slow 1MHz Apple IIe (which is what the IIe Card is), can really take advantage of the speed of a SCSI drive (BlueSCSI, etc.), or would an image placed on a FloppyEMU run about the same?

 

[retr01]

As such, I'm curious if the rather slow 1MHz Apple IIe (which is what the IIe Card is), can really take advantage of the speed of a SCSI drive (BlueSCSI, etc.), or would an image placed on a FloppyEMU run about the same?

The Apple IIe hardware emulator PDS card has two clock frequency options at 1 MHz or 1.9 MHz.

The BMOW Floppy Emu *could* run on the floppy disk connector of the special Y-cable by Apple connected to the Apple IIe card.

According to BMOW, you will need to change the firmware on the Floppy Emu to use the 5.25" or 3.5" Apple II floppy disk modes. Yet, the Apple IIe card only supports the Apple 5.25" drive and 800k "UniDisk" 3.5" drive (which is different than the regular Apple 800k drive). I am unsure if BMOW's Floppy Emu has Unidisk 800k support other than the 5.25" 140k and 3.5" 800k support.

When you run in Apple IIe mode, the Macintosh operations are suspended. The Apple IIe emulation with this hardware card is hardware only. I am unsure if you could access a disk image like in a modern software Apple II or IIGS emulator. You can set up a ProDOS partition on the Mac and put Apple II files there. The Apple IIe card supports Apple ProDOS 8-bit programs. I am not sure about Apple DOS 3.3 programs. It will not support any Apple IIGS 16-bit programs.

So, you could probably transfer Apple IIe ProDOS files via BMOW Floppy EMU in Mac firmware and connect to the Mac after downloading some Apple IIe programs and placing them on the SD card. BMOW and other Apple II folks recommend using Apple Cider for Windows or similar programs to manage ProDOS files. However, ProDOS support is built in System 6.0.8 through 7.5.5 for 24-bit addressing necessary for the Apple IIe card, as System 7.6 and up do not support 24-bit addressing. See Devon Hubner's guide on Apple IIe Card.

As for the Apple IIe card using the ProDOS partition off the Mac's HDD or BlueSCSI, the transfer rate is on Mac's side and then processed by the Apple IIe card, so it is pretty transparent. The Apple IIe card in the Mac will run just like on an Apple IIe as far as disk access times, maybe a bit faster since off the HDD or BlueSCSI from the Mac. If using BMOW Floppy Emu in Apple II disk mode for 5.25" or 3.5" Unidisk 800k drive, slower disk slower. The access time is slower than the BMOW Floppy Emu on an Apple 5.25" or Apple 3.5" Unidisk drive.

 

[retr01]

By the way, @JDW, I have uploaded the Apple IIe Card Owner's Guide in TinkerDifferent's resources section. That will help guide you.

 

[JDW]

I've actually been going through the documentation for a while, but I am still confused about the best solution for ProDOS drive images. Basically, I just want to know the best way to setup the 32MB ProDOS partitions (drives) that everyone is talking about. Even on the Savage Taylor site he talks about using two of them. So if there are a set of software packed 32MB ProDOS images out there, then it's just a matter of me wanting to know if those can be used on a FloppyEMU, and if not, then such would mean putting those images on a BlueSCSI, MacSD or similar. I'm sure that using a SCSI drive would work, I basically want to know more about whether it's possible to use a FloppyEMU, especially since there is less of a speed hit when communicating with a slow Apple IIe than there would be a Mac (I'm guessing).

Now in terms of so-called "emulation" done by the Apple IIe Card when using in a Color Classic, Mystic, or other LC-series Mac, the fact is the card has a real 65C02 processor (same as the Apple IIc and "Enhanced" Apple IIe), along with its own 128K of RAM (actually two 128K chips), a real IWM chip and an LSI LOGIC chip (which basically integrates multiple ICs that are on a really IIe motherboard into this one chip), which means it's technically not an emulator, although "virtual" expansion cards and the video routines sent to the Mac's CRT are emulated.

 

[retr01]

@JDW - I just updated post #9 above.

 

[retr01]

I've actually been going through the documentation for a while, but I am still confused about the best solution for ProDOS drive images. Basically, I just want to know the best way to setup the 32MB ProDOS partitions (drives) that everyone is talking about. Even on the Savage Taylor site he talks about using two of them. So if there are a set of software packed 32MB ProDOS images out there, then it's just a matter of me wanting to know if those can be used on a FloppyEMU, and if not, then such would mean putting those images on a BlueSCSI, MacSD or similar.

Based on Devon Hubner's guide, increase the partition from 10 MB to 32 MB and place the Apple ProDOS files there. I am unsure if it would give you an option bigger than 10 MB. ProDOS's maximum partition size is 32 MB.

Yes, there are sets of ProDOS disk images. However, you would need to copy files from there to the partition you set up. I will look for the ProDOS images that contain popular programs, games, etc. You can download that image to your Mac, which you should be able to open as a ProDOS volume under the System software on the desktop. Then, you can copy it to the ProDOS partition you set up for the Apple IIe card.

I'm sure that using a SCSI drive would work, I basically want to know more about whether it's possible to use a FloppyEMU, especially since there is less of a speed hit when communicating with a slow Apple IIe than there would be a Mac (I'm guessing).

I think it is possible to use FloppyEMU, but you must decide how to use it. Would the FloppyEMU be connected to the Mac where you put the Apple IIe card ProDOS partition? Or do you want to change the firmware on the FlopyEMU to use Apple II disk mode for 5.25" or 3.5" Unidisk (if FloppyEMU Apple II firmware has that support) and hook it up to the Apple Y-card connected to the Apple IIe card?

There will be a speed hit versus simply running from the Apple IIe card ProDOS partition off the Mac's HDD, BlueSCSI, or MacSD.

Now in terms of so-called "emulation" done by the Apple IIe Card when using in a Color Classic, Mystic, or other LC-series Mac, the fact is the card has a real 65C02 processor (same as the Apple IIc and "Enhanced" Apple IIe), along with its own 128K of RAM (actually two 128K chips), a real IWM chip and an LSI LOGIC chip (which basically integrates multiple ICs that are on a really IIe motherboard into this one chip), which means it's technically not an emulator, although "virtual" expansion cards and the video routines sent to the Mac's CRT are emulated.

Correct. As for the IWM, I did read that the Apple IIe card only supports 800k off the Unidisk, not a regular 800k drive so that needs to be verified and cleared up.

 

[JDW]

@JDW - I just updated post #9 above.

Right, and the link you posted here...

See Devon Hubner's guide on Apple IIe Card.

Contains information I've read before about partitioning existing drives to have a Mac and ProDOS portion. But that's fiddly and time consuming and unnecessary, I think, because I believe you can just add multiple drive images to a FloppyEMU or BlueSCSI and achieve the same, yet with a larger size (32MB vs. 10MB).

I am aware of the 24-bit addressing requirement.

So what I'm really looking for is someone's first hand experience with the aforementioned drive images and the IIe Card, and wondering what the exact images they are using so I can more quickly test them out.

 

[retr01]

Right, and the link you posted here...

See Devon Hubner's guide on Apple IIe Card.

Contains information I've read before about partitioning existing drives to have a Mac and ProDOS portion. But that's fiddly and time consuming and unnecessary, I think, because I believe you can just add multiple drive images to a FloppyEMU or BlueSCSI and achieve the same, yet with a larger size (32MB vs. 10MB).

I am aware of the 24-bit addressing requirement.

So what I'm really looking for is someone's first hand experience with the aforementioned drive images and the IIe Card, and wondering what the exact images they are using so I can more quickly test them out.

That makes sense. Just set up 32 MB ProDOS HDD image and mount to desktop.

 

[retr01]

@JDW

BMOW offers a ProDOS 32MB image packed with some popular programs and games:

ProDOS Software Collection for Floppy Emu | Big Mess o' Wires

www.bigmessowires.com

And another Apple II site offers more variety:

http://www.apple-2.com/?i=1

.2mg disk images are not mountable on a Mac. So that needs to move over to a .dsk or other image to mount the ProDOS volume image on the Mac.

 

[retr01]

@JDW, I read over at the 68kmla that @joethezombie used a patched HD SC setup program to set up ProDOS partitions for the Apple IIe card.

LC III and ProDOS partitions

I recently acquired both a Mac LC III and the Apple IIe card. I had a difficult time partitioning the hard drive to create a ProDOS partition but eventually managed it using Lido (after the patched HD SC Setup had scrambled the non-Apple SCSI drive). Now both Lido and HD SC Setup report that...

68kmla.org

However, the question is converting from .2mg or another image of a ready-made ProDOS 32 MB image with a bunch of popular Apple II ProDOS programs and games to toss the files over to the ProDOS partition set up by the patched Apple HD SC.

 

[JDW]

Honestly, I think @Ron's Computer Videos has perhaps the most fleshed out approach when it comes to getting the IIe Card to work with images. And now that I've tagged Rom, perhaps he'll chime in.

First, here's Ron's Excellent Video on the subject.

Next, here are the two 32MB files Ron uses:

• ProDOS Boot image
• Total Replay

In summary of his video, Ron made two ProDOS partitions, then he copied all the files inside the ProDOS Boot image to one partition, and the he copied all but the "Demos" folder of the Total Replay 4.01 image to the other partition. (Not sure if simply excluding Demos will be enough with Total Reply Version 5, since it seems they added a lot of new content. Again, Ron used v4.01.)

So my question for Ron at this point is, do we really need to partition an existing drive or drive image, as opposed to simply using the 32MB images because BlueSCSI and FloppyEMU won't support those images as is?

I was thinking if they could just be dropped onto an SD card and used, it's faster than going through the partitioning process. What say you, Ron?

The quickest and simplest path to victory is what I'm pondering.

(My machine will be a CC Mystic with the IIe Card, most likely running System 7.1.)

 

[retr01]

I have six ProDOS 32 MB volumes for my Apple IIGS. Two on a full-size SD card in Ian Kim's SD Disk ][ card from South Korea and four on the microSD card in the BMOW FloppyEMU.

@JDW, you should be able to have more than two 32 MB ProDOS volumes on your Mac for the Apple IIe card. Back in the day, I had multiple volumes on my souped-up Apple //e with the Sider external hard drive from First Class Peripherals and two 5.25" floppy disks in the DuoDisk. You even could try connecting the FloppyEMU running Apple II disk mode firmware to the Y cable of the Apple IIe card. I'll bet you can run GEOS GUI desktop OS on the Apple IIe card.

GEOS for the Apple II

toastytech.com

Apple II software mirrors

A collection of past and current Apple II FTP sites. ftp.apple.asimov.net is synced daily.

mirrors.apple2.org.za

APPLE from Washington state improved and distributed updates of GEOS:

GEOS

Welcome to the GEOS for the Apple ][ Webpage. GEOS is a Graphical Environment Operating System for the Apple ][ computer and runs best on computer with the Apple ][ mouse attached. GEOS was published by Berkely Systems and in 2003, permission was received by A.P.P.L.E. to reproduce and...

www.callapple.org

 

[Ron's Computer Videos]

“So my question for Ron at this point is, do we really need to partition an existing drive or drive image, as opposed to simply using the 32MB images because BlueSCSI and FloppyEMU won't support those images as is?

I was thinking if they could just be dropped onto an SD card and used, it's faster than going through the partitioning process. What say you, Ron?”

The more I’ve played around with the Apple TV Option Card, the more my approach have changed in how to best set up partitions to make using things like Total Replay more convenient.

i’m getting ready to release a video that I feel represents my best practices on how to handle partitions. The end result is basically a large (nearly 2GB) HFS partition for storing your host Macintoshes operating system, and then four properly-sized 32MB ProDOS partitions for whatever Apple TV shenanigans you want to get up to - all integrated into one image file.

Why have it all shoehorned into one image file? Mostly because I don’t know what other people’s SCSI setups look like, and I just wanted to be as efficient as possible and limit the number of IDs that they would potentially have to tie up.

I should hopefully have that video up in the next few days and I promise that it will better explain what I’m trying to lay down here and hopefully makes a good case for my methodology.